With Christine's helpful information videos, books etc I have been successfully managing an uterine prolapse for 10 years. Last year I had a colonoscopy and shortly after my Dr. told me I had a small rectocele that was causing pressure on my rectum. I was not conscious of this before my colonoscopy,but felt rectal pain right after. I wanted to find more information on this subject and when I found it in the forum I could not access the comments.

Because of my discomfort I went to see my gynecologist. She feels removing my uterus and at the same time repairing the rectocele is the way to go. I agreed to a transvaginal and transabdominal ultrasound. The results were normal except for the uterine prolaspse. I refused the surgery since there is no question of desease. Meanwhile I need helpful information and would really like to read the comments on the the Forum.

Hi NFP - you have been a forum member for a lot of years and have participated in many discussion threads, so I'm not sure what you mean when you say that you cannot access the comments on the forum. You'll need to describe this in a little more detail.

A small rectocele is not a reason for hysterectomy and surgery. Whole Woman has been working hard since 2003 to keep women out of the operating room, managing their symptoms with posture and other tools developed by Christine to assist in keeping the organs in proper alignment. If you consult with a surgeon, you cannot be too surprised when the recommendation is surgery. Management of rectocele is no different from management of any other type of prolapse. Go back to the videos you have, or consider updating your resource library with some new products from the Store. And keep reading the forum. - Surviving

I was able to access your comment when I clicked on comment but was not the case when I clicked on comments that pertained to Rectocele. I will try again. This was a new experience for me and to say the least painful.

Right after my colonoscopy I experienced pressure on my rectum. Two different female doctors confirmed I suffered an injury and I recently went to a friend of one of the doctors who is a gynecologist and specialist in the field. She too confirmed I suffered some damage during the colonoscopy and suggested an over the counter creme to heal my irritated skin from the rectocele. It is very helpful.

The reason I had The colonoscopy is because I had one years ago and a polyp that was removed was thought pre-cancerous. Several doctors recommended that I have one against my better judgement and I gave in.

The specialist confirmed from the sonogram my organs are normal outside of the prolapse. It had been awhile since I had a good gynecological exam and I was relieved to find things OK.
While surgery is an option it is not for me. My medical doctors are well aware of my position on this matter. A situation of life and death is another matter.

I haven't been on the Forum for a while and I wanted to see what others had to say in this matter. I have quite a library of Christine's videos and books and am presently participating in her Menopause program which I wholeheartedly recommend. Of cause, I use Christine's references but I wanted to hear what others had to say on this subject. The pain and discomfort were getting to me from the rectocele and I wanted to know what others were doing. I will try to access the comments and see if I am successful this time. Thanks for getting back to me Surviving. I appreciate your concern.

Hi Again Surviving,
I could not access any comments outside of your response to me on the subject of Rectocele. I don't know why this is happening.

Are you using the search box to look for discussions of rectocele? When the Search Results come up, you have to click on the title of the discussion you want to view. Then the whole discussion will come up, including the comments for that discussion. If you click on "comments" on the Search Results page, nothing happens. - Surviving

Yes, I am using the search box. Yes, I am signed in. Yes I am getting all the different comments from long ago until recent but could not access any comments. Then I clicked on the heading of each question and the comments were available. My mistake was clicking on the comments and thinking they would appear. I have a meeting tomorrow with my woman gynecologist. While I am not open to any surgical solution I welcome the opportunity to sit and have a good discussion on this topic with her. The Forum always opens new avenues of thought for me and I wanted to add some of these to my research before meeting with the Gynecologist. I also want to give her Christine's excellent website.

The Gynecologist was recommended to me by my doctor and friend who is a woman. The Gynecologist, a woman, is well credentialed with a successful office and surgical practice, in her 60's and from India. I went to her for my Gynecological physical and the Rectocele which was new after my Colonoscopy and very uncomfortable. All tests, pap and sonogram turned out negative which I am grateful.

Of course she offered me surgery to remove the uterus which has been 10 year prolapsed and repair the Rectocele. She said there was no need to remove the ovaries. I told her that was not an option and she offered me a face to face meeting rather than surgery. This is what I found out. Anyone who needs a colonoscopy is on a vegan or plant based diet, has frequent easy bowel movement needs a different preparation. In my case I should not have had the colonoscopy. She is certain that it was the preparation that caused my the rectocele. I agreed because it was a violent elimination and even though my preparation was cut in half that was still not helpful.

With that said she recommended Calmoseptine (found it helpful) over the counter lotion for the soreness I was experiencing. She also agreed with Christine's recommendation of honey and vinegar. That can cause yeast for me so she recommended using baking soda and water rather than the white vinegar and water spray and stay away from salts. She also recommended sitting in warm water with a teaspoon of baking soda. Have not tried it yet. She was on-board with my use of Coconut oil mixed with a vitamin e capsule, flax oil is good and also A&D diaper ointment she said is an option. Do not use any hydro cortisone creams because it thins the tissue.

Most important is the exercise. Christine has a helpful one for Rectocele and of course posture, which is whole-woman posture and last but not least a diet high in fiber. I am plant based and have been for a few years now and so is my husband. Over the years I can't say enough how I appreciate Christine and all her very hard research and documentation. She is right on mark. Having a medical education myself I can honestly say you don't learn this in medical training. I use her books and streaming videos for reference and exercise. I am a participant in her program on the Joy of Menopause. I highly recommend it.

A little personal information I am 80 years old and a professional family life counselor still going strong with a small practice and giving workshops. Staying healthy and active is important to me. Having Christine's website available to me is a blessing. Thank you Christine!

There are many contributing factors to developing rectocele......chronic constipation and straining, childbirth interventions especially episiotomy, extended pessary use, and of course, a lifetime of bad advice and bad habits, bad posture and the resulting unsupported and misaligned organs. It's unlikely that one instance of explosive diarrhea is the cause of your rectocele, though it makes for an easy scapegoat for your gynecologist. More likely you had a rectocele that was not particularly symptomatic, but was aggravated by the probing and is now causing discomfort. That's just my take on your post.....You do seem to have this doctor on a pedestal, despite the fact that she was ready to slice and dice you all up, the minute you said yes to her recommendations.

I do love this quote from Christine's latest newsletter: "For some, stepping away from the medical system as we know it is as easy as stepping off a curb. For others, it’s like stepping off a cliff." I would say you are somewhere in between, but I do admire your thoroughness, and your willingness to try and engage in a dialogue with someone who, in truth, has no interest in hearing about prolapse management through posture. - Surviving

You are probably right that I had a non symptomatic rectocele and the colonoscopy pushed it over the edge. I was very uncomfortable and wanted a proper diagnosis. I was relieved to know my problem was anatomical. I was given all medical test reports for reference and told I was doing every thing right in relieving my symptoms in a non surgical manner. She called me the following day to assure me I was OK. Working in the field of medicine for years there are doctors who feel surgery is the only answer. This doctor is not one of them. I consider her a friend who believes a woman has the right to make her own choice about her body. While she offered me surgery she was quick to say this is your choice I would never tell you, you need to do it. By stepping away from the medical profession as we know it we will never make a difference. Nor woukd I have the opportunity to introduce Christine'a work and website to my woman doctor friends. If you noticed I am talking about woman doctors. I don't find the men as opened minded.

The argument that "whose hands" pelvic floor surgeries are in makes the difference between success and failure is an old one. However, decades of catastrophic failure rates clearly reveal that these surgeries don't work no matter who is performing them.

The WW argument is that they *can't* work because they are built upon a flawed conceptual framework of a "pelvic floor" that needs to be made smaller, tighter, stronger. It is simply the wrong concept, and since female pelvic surgeons are cut from the same cloth, they are often just as aggressive in their practices.

Thank you for your comment Christine. No one least of all me is arguing your premise. I just don't agree that all surgeons are cut out of the same cloth.

That has not been my experience or my husband here in Florida. My husband thought for sure he needed a hip replacement. After seeing an orthopedic surgeon and going through ex rays and testing he was told what he needed was physical therapy not a new hip. At a routine eye exam I was told I had cataracts however they were not bad and should not be removed. In fact anyone who says they should be removed should lose their license. They are not ready to be removed.

As far as gynecology goes Christine Northrup, MD does not push surgery. Utimately the choice is yours. When I told my gynecologist no surgery she supported me in my choice. As she said we are dealing with an anatomical situation not pathological, "how can I help you?." Just seeing the normal sonogram report and pap test was relief enough for me and knowing I could manage the rectocele.

Today I had a conversation with my cardiologist and primary care physician who gave me the referral to the gynocologist. She said I absolutely agree with you, you made the right choice. My experience with my woman doctors is so positive. I cannot say the same with the male doctors.

I have changed over the years in my thinking as a Family Life Educator and Counselor. I am also a Natural Family Life Practitioner who has studied with doctors here in the US and Europe. I hold a Doctorate, Masters and Certificate of Advanced Specializion. The women I admire are unique including yourself and certainly not cut out of the same cloth. We need to support our women doctors and surgeons who think differently from their colleagues and not lump them into the same group. We need to hope for the possibility of change in the field of gynecology for the sake of all women. Most important we need to be educated and think for ourselves.


I am happy to hear that you have found WW methods to be helpful in the management of prolapse symptoms. I also find your arguments somewhat disturbing.

In reading through this thread it is clear you see many doctors:

“my cardiologist and primary care physician”
“my gynecologist”
“two different female doctors”
“I recently went to a friend of one of the doctors who is a gynecologist”
“Several doctors recommended that I have one against my better judgement and I gave in.”

How fortunate that you and your husband have avoided common surgeries, but as you say “My medical doctors are well aware of my position on this matter”, so obviously you are not a surgical candidate in their eyes. Yet you must know, NFP, that more women than ever are undergoing hysterectomy and other devastating pelvic, hip and knee operations. I have to wonder why in the world an 80-year-old would find a pap smear and vaginal ultrasound necessary. The doctor certainly didn’t need the very questionable ultrasound images to diagnose rectocele.

Why would you dismiss the healing power of warm sea salt water just because your doctor dismissed it? I would never allow Calmoseptine near my body. It is a hydrocarbon-based product born of the industrial chemical industry that includes the white crystals of chlorothymol, glycerin from the animal-tallow industry, and phenol from petroleum.

And let’s be clear that honey and vinegar do not cause an overgrowth of yeast. These are the very best biologic medicines available for restoring the vaginal microbiome in the older woman, yet some women react negatively to various vinegars.

You say “By stepping away from the medical profession as we know it we will never make a difference.” Yet, there are many MDs who have done just that in order to make the world a better place. The doctor you are so highly in praise of offered you a devastating surgery - a surgery she undoubtedly performs on dozens of women every [edit:year]. I’m having a hard time finding admiration in that.

Yes, women do need to think for themselves. And also understand the subtle but profound differences between a self-care mindset and one that is medically-dependent.


I edited the above post.

The average pelvic surgeon performs around 50 hysterectomies every year.

I wanted to share some personal thoughts - i do believe surgical skill makes a difference for sure, but only in areas like transplants, brain surgery, bone surgery etc... but the shocking and really scary fact of the matter is surgery is business... and it's especially 'good business' in areas like female pelvic surgery..... it's an area that women don't want to talk about, an area that is SO VERY misunderstood by the entire industry, and an area where long term results are not tracked, monitored or discussed. it's so easy to say - "hysterectomy" to any number of female issues and a lot of women agree and get them done (like mesh and slings etc etc Christine knows what she speaks of very well in this area as she was one of them! and thanks to her going through this - she's saved so many women from the same path!!)

but a hystorectomy - no matter how 'skilled' and careful and amazing and compassionate the surgeon is - the surgery itself compromises the entire female support system. so surgical skill is not the deciding factor here... and yes - plenty of women have pelvic surgeries and are seemingly ok but huge numbers are not. I don;t know that anyone would agree to surgery with the same failure rates as pelvic organ surgeries if they really knew the right rates. I was reading that failure rates are as high as 60%... how is that ok?? and that proves it's not surgeon skill...
it's hard to get real failure rates because there are many different kinds of surgeries... failures occur sometimes years after... and 'failure' comes in many forms, some women might still have incontinence but if it's light, they think oh that's not really failure - i can live with it.... and so on...
i'm not really directing this at you NFP since, as you say, you're anti surgery... but I just wanted to lay down my thoughts here on this thread...

your doctor - as kind and smart and compassionate as she is - her first solution for you was surgery... and if you were not the type of person who didn't want surgery? what about the next patient that comes to her with a rectocele who doesn't know any better? who trusts their doctor to make the right choice for them?

Thanks much for your thoughts Typicalme. I so hope we can raise a new generation of women who understand at a very deep level that only they can heal themselves. I think we forget that we live in very strange times, when a relatively small group of men (and now women) have taken the wildness from women, and hypnotized us into mistrusting our body, and nature.

What is so ironic is that all the poking, looking, and “surveillance” will eventually bring about what doctors are looking for, and what women are afraid they will find. As the ancient wisdom traditions teach us, the body cannot create anything - it is impossible. Only the mind creates.

I'm sure by now you may feel that we are picking on you without cause. The truth is, you started a discussion here, raising issues that cut right to the very heart of the Whole Woman mission. We can't let our message get watered down for the masses....the masses need all the information they can get. Christine's position on the medical management of prolapse, and the role of doctors in perpetuating this damage to countless women, has been clear from the beginning. Just because yours took "no" for an answer, doesn't make her one iota better than the rest of them. - Surviving

We never mean to hurt anyone’s feelings, but only get to the heart of the matter, and what we are discussing in this thread is truly the core issue for us all.

I like to believe humans developed naturally up to a point. Of course it is all “natural” because the evolution of humankind just kept rolling along through the ages. However, things took a decidedly unnatural turn when the scientific, industrial, and medical revolutions got a foothold. Francis Bacon, the “Father of Science” vowed that nature would be “Bound into service, hounded in her wanderings and put on the rack and tortured for her secrets.” Things haven’t gone much better for women.

Before the early Modern Age women were in charge of women’s health, which had to do primarily with the birth process, and tending to infections, broken bones, and infectious diseases for the whole community. One can only assume that a woman of any age with prolapse would've gone to the village midwife, who probably would’ve said, “Oh yes, I see that occasionally, just carry on with your work and you will be fine.” And because women did not sit in soft furniture and were far more active, their symptoms were likely very manageable.

However, surgeons have always been necessary members of the human community. When a midwife encountered a true obstructive birth, or dead fetus that could not be born, she would call in the surgeon - who was also the town butcher. The surgeon would extract the fetus so the mother’s life could be saved. This was true for amputations as well. It was simply the natural order of things that hunters and butchers were men.

When man-midwives took over the birth process, a slow and steady march toward surgical birth and surgical intervention for all manner of common women’s conditions began. I have no doubt that if the women of the time could have seen into the future they would’ve been horrified at the state of women’s “health” today.

Gynecology is and always has been a surgical practice. The only hope for the possibility of change is if women walk away from a system that has arisen from male domination and control. I hold out far less hope that NFPs wonderful women doctors will begin a new profession based on the correct anatomy of the female body (for God’s sake!) and natural solutions to common women’s health conditions, although this is what is truly needed.


…that many doctors - particularly cardiologists and internists - have left the standard medical model to focus their practices on health rather than treating the symptoms of disease. My husband’s former client Dean Ornish is one of them. Dr. McClanahan from Correct Toes stopped performing foot surgeries in favor of rehabilitating feet. The list is very long, but such is not the case with gynecology, even though most obgyns are now women!