BV? How long for honey to work?



I have been struggling for over a year (more like 3, but only a year of it being more than not) with vaginal/vulval discomfort. At first I thought it was thrush and would treat it with over the counter tablets. It would relieve me short term. After looking on here I started with cider vinegar and honey with some relief.

I've experienced symptoms each time after getting pregnant (ie before I even know I'm pregnant) except for my daughter (my only live child).

I have recently and unfortunately had medical procedures post foetal loss (in Sept and Dec '16) which entailed be blasted with the dreaded high dose antibiotics.

For the most recent pregnancy I had symptoms throughout but just tried to deal with them on my own (in 2013 I had another loss after being treated with a pessary for thrush).

But now I'm really struggling. I am using raw honey high in my vagina 2xdaily.
My ph varies: I have had a normal ph (4-4.5) but then at times it is 6. It's currently 5 but so sore and swollen and itchy I'm not sure how much more I can take (before I buckle and see the doctor). There's no chance I could have sex at the moment: it's just too painful.

I am eating healthy unprocessed foods and have ordered some lactobacillus pessaries.

I've been referred for ivf due to the losses but don't think we can go ahead with natural conception or ivf until this is sorted. I am 41 so taking time is not helping.

Any advuce gratefully and desperately received.


Hi NP,
This may be a question for Christine, as I am unsure of a time frame or other extenuating circumstances that could apply. Christine does have some new videos, Miraculous Self Healing Vagina and Gut health, that could help shed some light on this for you. Or, you may want to schedule a consult with Christine for further information.

I have watched the MSHV video but (unless I missed it) doesn't talk about time frames...I'll look into the gut health one as that might shed some light. I've been looking at the anti candida diet and it looks like my smoothies with bananas and dates will have to go...although they also ban the honey I'm not sure I can go that far!

Thanks again for your reply.

Hi NewPerspective,

I’m sorry to hear of your struggles, and would highly suggest watching my video lecture The Miraculous Self-Healing Vagina. Your history suggests a strong correlation between your vaginal symptoms and miscarriage.

Please understand that I am not in a position to prescribe or tell you what to do to resolve your condition. I can only tell you about the science of the vaginal environment, which is detailed in the lecture.

First of all, the Lactobacillus pessaries will probably be of little use. Bacterial species must be “autochthonous”, or native, to persist in the vagina. Many studies now confirm this, and this is why honey is the perfect “prebiotic”, next to the vagina’s own glycogen.

Lactobacilli produce acetic acid (vinegar), which lowers pH and kills the fungal species that cause swelling, soreness and itching. Clearly a reproductive age woman with such symptoms should be using diluted vinegar on a regular basis.

Honey and vinegar are the only substances I know of that restore the natural microbiota of the vagina. There are people selling herbal preparations to prevent bacterial vaginosis and even STDs, but the science only supports restoring native species of Lactobacillus. Ninety-five percent of what is in a healthy vagina is comprised of four species of Lactobacillus.

It sounds like the antibiotics deeply disturbed your vaginal ecosystem, just like they do in the bladder and gut. The vulva pain may be hormonal in nature. The medical system prescribes cortisone and hormone creams in hopes of restoring balance, but it is always a crap-shoot and not without certain risk. The vulva (unlike the vagina) is embryologically analogous to the penis and scrotum, and therefore largely supported by testosterone. Half of the androgens that turn into testosterone come from your adrenal glands. The adrenals also produce the stress hormone cortisol, so it seems logical that if the adrenals are exhausted from pumping out cortisol, they may be less efficient at producing androgens. At any rate, doctors have always noticed a connection between stress and chronic vulva pain.

Another thing that may help are sitz baths with natural seaweed. Alaria, bladderwrack, and kelp contain the full array of micronutrients that nourish and heal delicate tissues.

Your story is another reminder of the importance of working with nature rather than against it.

Wishing you well,


I woke up in the middle of the night thinking about hydrogen peroxide (H2O2).

Two very important species of Lactobacillus are found in healthy acidic vaginal environments, L. crispatus and L. jensenii. The reason these are so vital is because they are heavy producers of hydrogen peroxide. H2O2 kills viruses, bacteria, and fungi. The Lactobacillus - H2O2 cycle is referred to as the vaginal antimicrobial defense system.

I can’t see any reason why using H2O2 vaginally would be a problem. Many people use it orally for gingivitis. The oral cavity and the vagina are the only places in the human body lined with squamous epithelial cells, which form the natural habitat for Lactobacillus.

An intractable vaginal infection would likely be helped by a short-term course of hydrogen peroxide. If it were me I would try soaking an organic cotton ball, inserting high in the vagina, and leaving it there for 30 minutes or so. I would repeat for 3-5 days. Upon removal of the cotton ball I would continue with vaginal honey. I would be careful not to overuse H2O2, as it is tough on tissues.

I would be VERY careful NOT to mix hydrogen peroxide with vinegar. Perhaps using the peroxide in the morning and the vinegar at night.

Hydrogen peroxide is a natural component of bacterial metabolism and something that already exists in a healthy vagina.

Self-care is a matter of experimentation and thoughtful alchemy. Every woman needs to make her own decisions and use her best judgment.


…Maybe it sounded a bit strange to hear that H2O2 kills bacteria, fungal species and viruses, and it is quite a bit more complicated (and miraculous!) than that. Cervical fluid provides a particular ion, which binds with H2O2 from Lactobacillus to release a substance called hypochlorous acid. It is this substance that is deadly to pathogenic species. The entire formula is in the lecture!

Actually, because honey is only a remedy at home, the effectiveness from applying this natural tip will be depended on the body condition of the applicant. So I cannot tell you how long it will work. Just wait for 1 or 2 months and your issue is not improved at all. You need to try another way to get rid of bv.
Bacterial Vaginosis refers to the condition that the vagina is infected due to the overgrowth of bacteria called anaerobes that commonly exist in the vagina in a small amount. Actually, this disease is not serious because it can disappear without treatment. However, recurrence is conventional so that bacterial vaginosis become a nightmare for many women with unpleasant odor, discharge and itching. Therefore, natural treatments will keep you healthy for long term.
Do you know betel? It's the leaf of an Asian evergreen climbing plant that is used in the East as a mild stimulant. Parings of areca nut, lime, and cinnamon are wrapped in the leaf, which is then chewed, causing the saliva to go red and, with prolonged use, the teeth to go black. Long time ago, betel leaves are widely considered as a prominent agent for both prevention and cure for bacterial vaginosis. Betel leaves contain substances that can inhibit the the spread of bacteria and remain good condition in the vagina.
After wash and crumple up betel leaves, you need to filter them to take betel juice. Mix the juice with a glass of warm water and use the water to rinse off your vagina. Then dry the vagina by a soft clean towel. Also, you can boil betel leaves and add add a little salt in the water to wash off the vagina. Apply the treatment 2 to 3 times a week.

Hi Camryn,

Let’s be very clear what the issues are here.

A healthy vaginal environment is created by a very few species of the Lactobacillus bacterium. Lactobacillus is a facultative anaerobe, which means it can live with or without oxygen. It is the gram-negative species that are generally associated with bacterial vaginosis.

Women have always used all sorts of botanical substances to try to rid themselves of bacterial, fungal, and viral species. Garlic is a favorite in the west, and betel leaves in India. I think of the temple dancers who were eventually forced into prostitution and who must have chewed betel leaves for self-preservation. However, let’s be very clear that the only way botanicals can work is by making the vagina more acidic, or by way of mild bacteriocidic action. These substances cannot fully restore the vaginal ecosystem because they are not prebiotics. Lactobacilli are said to be “fastidious” because their preferred energy source is oligosaccharides.

Honey is the only substance in nature that is a perfect replacement for the vagina’s own glycogen.

Interestingly though, the post-menopausal vagina seems to be easier to regulate with honey alone. We have a wonderful soon-to-be WW Practitioner in Los Angeles who is a midwife with a large clientele. From the beginning of her WW training she has been suggesting honey to her childbearing population. She saw immediately that vinegar is especially important to these women to prevent candida overgrowth.

If garlic and betel juice were truly effective against vaginal pathogens the world would not have suffered epidemics of STDs, including HIV and cervical cancer. What I lay out in the Miraculous Self-Healing Vagina is the vagina’s own natural antimicrobial defense system, which was discovered during the 1980’s and then covered up in favor of developing expensive antiviral drugs. I also give evidence for humanity being conscious of the value of this very early remedy, an awareness that was eventually lost to western medicine.


...and one last word. Chronic BV is a very common, yet quite serious disease in women of childbearing years or women who are sexually active, but not monogamous. It is the direct cause of over 50% of miscarriage and pre-term birth, as well as being the path to all sexually transmitted diseases including HIV, HPV, and cervical cancer.


I didn't check the forum as I've been busy and came back to see these wonderful responses, thank you.

I'm sure it's not tmi here but I know my vaginal ph has dropped just because my black knickers no longer get bleached out. As a teenager I assumed my mum was doing something dodgy when she washed them! But clearly not: it was the hydrogen peroxide. Prior to my daughter this was always a 'problem' . Now I wish that it would happen!! So I will be trying the dilute vinegar once per day, hydrogen peroxide at the other end of the day and continuing with the honey. I'm glad I checked the forum. I was going to contact the GP tomorrow (I won't now). Also I have had a very stressful year (having relocated to a non-English speaking country, plus the loss of my babies) so I imagine my cortisol levels are sky high. As well as the practical solutions here I am eating well, exercising with yoga and other WW programs, and am going to have some acupuncture too. A holistic approach is definitely required.

Thanks again, I will update you of the outcome....


So on top of everything a penny has dropped and I realise my daughter (& I hate to say it) and I have pin/thread worms... I'm so sceptical of the accepted medical wisdom re most things I'm hoping there's something out there more natural and holistic to try... that won't cause all my efforts to rebalance my body to be undone... Any thoughts/experience?

After the birth of my first child I was dismayed to find I had worms. After a difficult birth I really didn't want any drugs. My midwife suggested eating raw carrot. I had to eat loads of it but it cleared the problem up in a few days , and I have never had the problem since. I obviously can't guarantee it will work for you , but you may think it's worth a try.

I used honey and had to go to the doctor about frequent urination and constant irritation due to my prolapse - it comes because the prolapse is low down and I get frequent UTI's after elimination
- I have had a lot of antibiotics recently that the Doctor said she wouldn't give me anymore antibiotics as it was thrush and recommended URAL (Cranberry capsules) and the bicarb powder to make the urine alkaline - I still have the irritation and don't think it is thrush as I looked it up in my medical book
I am thinking of going down to a clinic or even hospital to get a second opinion - I see Christine recommends sitz baths with Epsom salts? - the honey I tried was Manuka honey as I am worried the local honey sold here is not really bug free- also cider vineagar and olive leaf are helpful - I think also the local people here think a pessary might help but I have to use the hormone cream - (which I am not going to do because of the risks) - I know the problem is the ecoli infections with the prolapse- does anyone have a good idea how to fix these urinary tract infections?

Hi Happy as I am,
Frequent UTIs can also be caused by residual urine sitting in the bladder; that is why it is so important to try to completely empty your bladder by tipping forward on the toilet or go on all fours in the shower or over a basin. If you have Christine's materials, you will find these techniques in there.
But, it is also so much more important to keep pulling those pelvic organs forward with the whole woman posture, because getting our pelvic organs, especially our bladder, in this case, out of the vaginal space and into the lower belly can put it in a position where the urine won't be able to pool in the bladder in the first place.
Other things you can do is jiggling and firebreathing before urinating for better bladder positioning to get all that urine out.

Honey inserted high up in the vagina helps build the good bacteria back up, but it does take time. When the lactobaccilli are plentiful, they can also create a better environment for our bladders and anus as well. To learn more about this process, you may want to look into Christine's lecture series and vaginal and gut bacteria health, here:

Getting the good bacteria built up over time, and working your posture and toilet practices will help you get a long way in overcoming chronic UTIs.

Thanks for the reply Aging gracefully- you are saying that the residual urine sitting in the bladder could cause infection and also honey can provide the lactobacilli ie good bacteria - I thought honey got rid of bacteria - it does worry me local honey could have bugs - and I was advised to use local honey to get rid of the bacteria - You are right I will try to take your advice - I find it hard and I am almost giving up with these UTIs - here you can good bacteria capsules in a powder which are quite expensive and the shop advises to take them after a course of antibiotics

Hi Happy as I am,
Christine actually explains all this better and more thoroughly than I ever could, but what I have learned from her is that our overall health, including our gut and vagina, is what helps with all our bodily functions. The constant use of antibiotics does kill off the good bacteria as well as the bad, so it will take time for the good bacteria to build back up.

The probiotics in capsule form are not necessarily going to match up with your particular body; that is why we each need to naturally build up our own with the fermented foods and honey, as well as a healthy diet. All of which Christine explains, again, so much better than I could.

I have never heard of bugs being in raw local honey; maybe something Christine could address?
What the honey does is feed the natural lactobaccilli which in turn crowds out the bad bacteria, creating the optimal environment we need.