So frustrated!!! Still don't have a diagnosis


Hello ladies,

I have written before about my problem. I strongly believe that my uterus has fallen back blocking my rectum. I managed to get an appointment with a gynaecologist this morning. He did a 1 minute examination of my vagina and decided that I have no problem. He said that my problem is a bowel motility problem. I told him that in order to get a bowel movement I have to splint through my rectum but he didn't listen. I told him that I feel worse when standing and I feel a pressure. He said from a gynecological standpoint I have no problem. Is it really all in my head?!!! I am so frustrated. Can an ultrasound of my pelvic floor show if I have a retroverted uterus? are ultrasounds accurate based on your experience?

Thank you

How frustrating that he didn't listen to you!

Yes, I believe a pelvic ultrasound would determine the position of your uterus. I know when I had them in early pregnancy, the report always stated the orientation of the uterus.

You can probably work it out yourself though, or as well. Can you feel your cervix inside your vagina? If the pointy bit is facing towards the back of your vagina (which means the pear shaped body of your uterus is facing your abdomen) then your uterus is anteverted and if the pointy bit is facing towards the front of your vagina (which means the body of your uterus is facing your back) then your uterus is retroverted. It can also occupy all of the positions in between, and may vary at different times, probably across your cycle, so you might want to measure each day for a month. Then you will know for sure whether your hypothesis is correct.

In my experience doctors and gyns do not recognise any issue with the orientation of your uterus. Perhaps that is because they are so specialised- gyns are not concerned with what happens in your bowel. Anyway, whatever the reason you are not getting satisfactory answers from him.

In terms of his conclusion about bowel motility, do you notice any correlation with different types of foods, how much exercise you do, how much you drink, or does it only make a difference where you are in your cycle?

A number of ladies on here (including Louise) have repositioned the uterus by means of sustained WW postural work over time. A prolapsed uterus is a uterus that has fallen back. Since your doc doesn't seem concerned, that's fine, because most docs' suggestions would be surgery, PT, pessary, or doing nothing. I think it's up to you and Whole Woman! Don't get hung up on a diagnosis. Call it a prolapsed uterus. Getting the organs forward is what this work is all about. Could you have rectocele? Many of us, if not most, have more than one prolapse. Most of us with bowel and splinting issues have rectocele. Fortunately, the "treatment" is the same - correct the posture and stabilize the organs. It takes time and dedication. - Surviving

Just a note to add my voice to curiousity and Surviving60 in encouraging you to work through it yourself, evaluating your own condition and trusting your ability to do so. If you didn't know you had a problem, you wouldn't have sought out a physician. You're not satisfied with his opinion because you know better already. There's the basis of your confidence in yourself and in the empathetic counsel of women here who have learned about their condition and ways to help themselves.

It's too bad that physicians and auto mechanics get paid before you get to prove the worth of their work. It's the threat of a 'bad credit rating' that prevents us from telling a doctor, "You're not answering my questions, your examination was inadequate, and I'm not going to pay you for this." If you have insurance and it pays, the doctors have money flowing in without having to work or think. Or, of course, they can pass the buck to another doctor in another 'speciality'. Anyway......enough crabbing.

There so much information to review. I find that reading, absorbing the info, then letting it 'set in on you' or 'rest' will lead to light-bulb moments and more understanding. I wish you the best.

thank you so much for your comments. I have not been feeling well over the last few days. Basically my uterus has fallen back completely blocking my rectum. Since i started the WW posture it has shifted up which is good, but i can not reach it with my finger anymore. The second part of my cycle this time around has become a nightmare because uterus becomes heavier and larger so it has blocked my rectum but not low enough for me to reach it with my fingure. I can not even pass gas. I went to my family doctor two days ago she said i should go to emergency room if things get really bad, but i didn't. I can't convince nurses and doctors about what is happening. They will just want to give my laxative or do an enema which both are dangerous in my case (water will go in but won't come back out). So, i am just waiting for my period next Monday which hopefully will give me relief from this nightmare. I am currently on an all liquid diet. Actually i did have an ultrasound yesterday which confirmed my uterus has fallen back. All i wanted from that arrogant gynecologist was to fit in a pessary so i get some short term relieve. In the long term, i have to do exercises to manage the problem. As much as i love my uterus, this is becoming a non sense.

Here's hoping you can get through this cycle and come out of it able to manage again. Your last statement, 'As much as I love my uterus, this is becoming a nonsense," resonated with me. I haven't even progressed to the kind of trouble you are having and was already thinking how much easier it would be to get rid of it all. But please, please hang in and read and remind yourself how important your uterus is to your health and structure. You've already experienced some upward shifting, you can tell that the posture and exercises work - and with the constant relapse that it has to be maintained. It's tiresome, no doubt, to endure to a measure of success that makes it manageable. It has to be thoughtfully weighed.

Did you get a pessary fitted?

I hope you're able to rest and find some relief during the weekend. Best wishes.

Hopeful, remember that WW work is not just an exercise program. Exercises support the posture, and being in posture all of your waking upright time is the goal. It has to be second nature. The old posture must become a thing of the past. This doesn't mean that you will never catch yourself with a tight belly and have to issue yourself a reminder. Stress and work can still do this to you. You will relax and get into a better body position as soon as you can.

Some will say that they can't remember posture, or they don't have time to learn it, or they don't have time to exercise. But once the posture is second nature, you don't have to work at doing it, and you ARE exercising as you go throughout your day. - Surviving

I love your bravery and your clear headed understanding of your difficulty and what you need to do about it. Your explanation of what is happening makes a lot of sense. Even when the uterus, as in my case has fallen down the vaginal canal, it exerts pressure on the rectum so that internal pressure builds up before the sphincter and it locks so that it becomes hard to defecate and pass wind. What I do in this case is apply a lubricant on and just inside the anus. This obviously lubricates the areas but it also seems to relax that area including the sphincter; frees it up to slip and slide. When the urge becomes strong, like Bede mentioned on another thread, I stand or walk around the house and the passing becomes easier. If you do not have the urge and yet you know that you are due, I suggest you apply the lubricant; it can act like a bit of a nudge.

I know this sounds simplistic when you find that after an enema you cannot release the water, but while you are suffering anything (not harmful) is worth a try and while you are at it you may, by thinking it through, come up with a better solution. I always find thinking and then taking action even if you have pre decided it won’t work can sometimes lead to a breakthrough. At the very least you prove why it won’t work.

Did your gyno give you any explanation why he would not fit you for a pessary? Was he saying that it would not work? It certainly sounds like an excellent short term measure for these days before your period. And when he said from a gyno point of view you have no problem was he referring you to another specialist? ‘Bowel motility’ is a broad term covering a lot of possibilities so I fully understand you not going into that at this point before you have a chance to prove or discount the effectiveness of the pessary. But it might be something you could look at later not with any idea at surgery but to find out if there is something else you need to be dealing with that you have not considered yet.

Now that the ultrasound has confirmed your suspicious, does the gyno have anymore to add? Will he fit you for a pessary now? Some ladies here have used sponges as a temporary pessary, some with success others not.

Stay in there girl and give it another try when you have had your period and things have resolved and you are feeling better. I do hope you come up with something so that this is the last period you have to put up with this.

Just on not being able to reach your uterus with your finger, I will be somewhat gross and ask is it possible to reach up into there with two or three fingers? That usually is the only way to lift the uterus up and forward over the pelvic bone. One finger is a poke, more than one is a lift.

Best wishes, Fab

Deqr Hopeful,
I think I can understand a bit how you feel because things are not going so well with me right now. I had to help a friend who feel and hurt herself and in doing I hurt myself, lifting her was too heavy for my prolapse, so now I am bleeding and swollen but she is getting better so I expect I will too.
But what I wanted to suggest was to try getting on your hands and knees and bending your arms so your chest goes to the floor. In this position suck in your belly and see if you can move your uterus forward and off of your rectum. You can wait a bit and see if you need to empty your bowels or If it works then you can suck in your belly (stomach vacuum) and then stand up and let out your belly. Walk around a bit and see if you can empty your bowels. The other thing I find helps me is to take arnica (200 C preferably but other dosages still help) homeopathically and that reduces swelling and congestion in the pelvic area. That might help you feel better too.
hope it helps,

Hi again hopeful, I was just wondering, if you can't reach your cervix with your finger(s), perhaps your uterus is not prolapsed at all, just retroverted. In which case, a pessary might not help? Others might chime in here. I'm not an expert with pessaries, but my understanding is that they attempt to push the uterus high up into vagina (moving it into a less prolapsed position). But if yours is already high, then a pessary may not do anything.

All of which I'm sorry to say does nothing to help you with your current symptoms. Fab and Savtahsavav have given what seem like some sensible suggestions. Anything that will move that uterus off your rectum and allow that stool to pass. Also just wondering if a liquid diet is the way to go. If your stool is more solid, perhaps the action of peristalsis might push your uterus out of the way and allow the stool to pass.

I hope you are finding relief with something.

Hi Hopeful, I had the same feelings one year ago and I was sure, that my uterus blocked my rectum. I felt that pressure inside too! But after the ultrasound examination my uterus turned out to be in normal position. This feeling was caused by the tension of my sphincter. I can't relax it at all so that I have anal fissuras too. And maybe the feeling was caused by my rectocele which I had it at the time without any symptoms. Hope you will find out that there is no serious problem with you. (sorry for my English...)

thank you so much for all your caring comments. This is so heart warming to see how supportive everyone is in this forum. i have to say in am still in the same situation. I am just waiting for my period to come. I feel like there is cement in my stomach :(( I live in Canada. They way system works here is that my family doctor based on her own diagnosis refers me to a specialist. Last time she said my sysptoms are signs of prolapse and refered me to a gynecologist. It usually takes a long time to see a specialist here. My original appointment was for April 23 but because i was in a terrible state i called and asked to see him urgently. He did and has a look inside and said i have no problem and should see a gastroentrologist. He was rushing me and wasn't listening to what i had to say and didn't even order an ultrasound. He said i should ask my family doctor to do that. I left his office very upset and next day went to see my family doctor and went over all my syptoms with her. This time she examined me and said i do have a bladder prolapse but uterus does not seem very low to her. I understand that uterus is not too low but the orientation has certaily changed. Before my cervix was high up where it should be now i just enter two third of my index fingure straight slightly to the right (with a 30 degree horizental angle) and there it is. It is more like it has fallen back. My family doctor ordered the ultrasound and it was confirmed that it is fallen back. With the knowledge that i have gained so far from reading christine's book i understand that this is early prolapse. I think for me the next step would be cervix coming down the vagina. Ok, i still don't have a bulge and that is why the gyno said i have no problem but my uterus is out of place. It is also blocking my rectum which is serious. My family doctor said the next step is to do a cityscan to know what is causing the blockage. The ultrasound confirmed position of the uterus but did not see if that is blocking the rectum. She will also refer me to a urologist this time (which she said is not as specialized as a gyno) and maybe she can fit in a pessary to see if it helps my problem. She said she will try expediting the process. It is true that we have a universal healthcare in Canada and some in the US say this is good. I find that doctors in Canada think that they are doing us a favour because of the universal healthcare. One has to keep reminding them that we are paying high taxes here and that is how they are paid. Sometime i think doctor in the US seem to have more motivation to make a diagnosis and do something. If they don't do a good job no one will go to them. Here even if they are not good still they get paid the same and they get referal through the system. Anyhow, i will do your suggestions regarding exercises and positions. I hope i can find a solution soon. I have never been through so much physical difficulty in my entire life. It is amazing how we take things for granted but once we lose them we realise how important they are. I sometimes think how will i able to reverse this througgh exercise? when uterus falls back, other organs (small intestine) takes the place. How can i push them up and replace the uterus myself? that seems impossible to me :(

Posture, WW exercise, posture, firebreathing, posture, long walks in posture, posture, posture, posture, posture. And maybe a personal consult with Christine or another teacher. I don't think you're making any headway with these doctors. - Surviving

If your uterus is not bound back by endometriosis then it can move forward just like it moved back. Things move out of the way. The position, posture and the abdominal vacuum makes the uterus move. We move a lot of babies by doing exercises. The uterus moves easier with a baby in it because of the weight but the uterus will move without a baby.

It is actually encouraging that your uterus isn't lower because that means your ligaments are not stretched out.

Not getting into an argument about universal health care debate, but I don't find that American doctors, from my experience, care anymore about female problems than any other doctors in other countries. Sorry, not trying to be down on doctors in general, but felt hurried and herded my whole life when it comes to anything to do with my female parts; on the other hand, when I had problems with my back, they were right on it, problems with my foot-I went to a specialist and received the utmost attention, etc. and so on. But when I have problems and concerns about my female parts, I get the big blow off.
My uterus has been retroverted most of my adult life, and when periods are getting near, constipation is always part of it. I have noticed though that since working on posture and exercises, that has not been as big of an issue as when I first started. Things are happening slowly for me, because I am older and put off noticing my symptoms until my cervix sunk down to the opening of my vagina, but they are happening. Just takes work and diligence. No quick fixes here. Thank you Christine and whole woman crew!

If the Canadian universal health system is anything like the Australian one, you can go along to the specialist that your doctor recommends, after all, your doc can be assumed to have a good knowledge of who is who. However, if you are not satisfied with that specialist, you can pick your own. You can ask around for personal referrals or just phone around the different doctor offices till you find one you think may be more suitable and then apply your doc’s referral to the specialist of your choice.

If ideologically speaking you prefer to pay extra for treatment believing you then will get a better service you can do that too, either by paying the extra yourself out of hand or by having private insurance on top of the taxes you pay which I don’t think are any higher than what people in the US pay.
Just a suggestion, your system may be totally different.

Also I think you have come up against the division of labor between gynos and urologists which does not make sense to a lot of us, but there you have it.

Also, it is pretty important that you have some understanding that the treatment you are applying will remedy the problem you are experiencing. We have all experienced the situation where we have not understood the workings of a cure and have had no faith at all in it and then being pleasantly surprised when it in fact did work and that the prescriber had better understanding of the situation than ourselves. But then the cure was usually something simple like taking a tablet or rubbing on some crème which was pretty easy even though we thought it useless to comply with. When the solution is a hands-on, self directed, pretty intensive one, as Wholewoman recommends, without some understanding of how it works, it is hard to see how you could motivate yourself to pursue it each and every day in spite of all setbacks and time robbing problem solving.

I don’t know whether you have read Christine’s “Saving the whole woman”. Without reading that book you can have no real understanding of what we are saying on this forum. You probably need to ask yourself what is causing the prolapse and how is what is offered meant to work?

Cheers, Fab

This is so true, and thanks Fab for the good reminder. We spend a lot of time on this forum trying to summarize things in a nutshell, hoping to convey enough of the underlying principles of WW to convince new members that this worth a shot (or more specifically, the ONLY way to go). But just as there is no shortcut to the work of stabilizing prolapse, there is no getting around the fact that you really have to understand it to make it work for you. It is hard work to retrain your body in correct posture, but it is so much easier when you know why you're doing it. the book. Then go back and read it some more. We've all done it. This is a process we have all had to do for ourselves. You can't dabble and you can expect this knowledge to be handed to you. - Surviving

PS- Who's read their e-mail this morning? WHOLE WOMAN CONFERENCE IN JULY!!!!

would love to attend but unfortunately family commitments at present are such that the ice cream will be whipped away. Ah such is life. But makes you appreciate the good times even more. I know you will all have fun and valuable experiences, go girls.

Just as you posted above, after my rereading the book and reading posts and thinking, walking, "posturing", it finally dawned on me the other day that it will take time and a constant commitment to retrain by body against its development and habit over so many, many years. Because that's it - retraining, reforming my body. It's funny that I have been able to feel over and over again the immediate difference in "how its hanging" by changing my stance but that it requires constant attention to keep it changed. I like the new term - full human extension, don't you? That makes it good for everyone - not just POPers.

So true, Bebe! We keep talking in this forum about how the benefits of this posture go so far beyond prolapse! I am so excited for Christine's hips research to be published and hopefully bring this knowledge to an even broader population.

i have been finding over the years that making the standing and walking posture second nature isn't even the hardest part. I've pretty much got that licked, and yet when bending, I still usually have to stop and correct my rounded back into a flattened one (bend from hips, not waist!). When I do, yes, I certainly feel the immediate difference in how it's hanging! But I guess some things will always require conscious thought all the time, at least for me. The goal for some may be to reach a point of "forgetting" about their prolapse, not to have to think about it as they go throughout their day. You can get there with the posture but you will always have to remind yourself of all the other stuff. For me, this is not a bad thing. It keeps me closely in tune with my own body, and at one with all the other women here who are living with the same challenges all the time. - Surviving

I think I have the standing, sitting and walking posture "down right" but not the bending. I don't seem to get what you mean by "bend from hips, not waist". Do you mean going down with a straight back by bending the knees and then in order to get back up, using the leg muscles? What if the legs are not strong enough to get back up??

Thanks for any clarification.

We all have our ways of describing this, but for me it's the difference between a rounded back and a flat back when I lean over. Bending from the waist means that your lower back is rounded. Bending from the hips means that your lower lumbar curvature is still in place, and you have more of a flat back and not a rounded one. The stronger the legs, the lower you can go without losing the lumbar curvature and still get back up again. Got to work on it! - Surviving

I found this an interesting discussion as I had never thought that my retroverted uterus could be causing some of my bowel issues...but maybe it is...? I have seen others on here talk about how leaning back to poo helps the poo slide out easily - whereas being in posture doesn't. I am in that boat and of course try to avoid leaning back (although occasionally just want to feel empty for once!). Could it be that leaning back gets the poo around the uterus? If so, would that mean if I was to be successful, like Louise, at moving my uterus forward, this strange urge to lean back would go away and the poo would come out more easily in correct WW posture?

I have this at times also, leaning back to poo, but I have noticed more prolapse in doing it that way. I have found that eating the right food and having the right consistency of poo helps in the leaning foward position. It actually comes out easier. Jiggling and firebreathing, sometimes before, and usually right after helps also.

graceful, it is a matter of dealing with the whole woman. As you use posture and exercise, your legs should gain enough strength so that you can half squat to void, this prevents the prolapse being forced down every time you go. Defecating as well does bring the uterus down further, just the simple urge feeling, the act of sitting on the toilet seat over an abyss and then the passage of expulsion do this. Protecting the uterus from these forces as much as possible is high on your priority.

Sometimes my stool is bent and I think yes it has certainly bent around something. But the best efforts occur where there is a minimum stretch of the prolapse which can sometimes be achieved by a stretching of the back up and into posture and this means the vagina is stretched navel to lumbar.

cheers Fab

Hopeful, you may have a retroverted uterus. Mine was, retroverted until a couple of years before menopause. It used to drive me mad just before a period, just as you describe. There can be so much going on in your pelvis in the luteal phase, including a larger uterus, a more sluggish gut and inflammation, which I think makes us feel all our symptoms more.

So many members have made points in this thread.
1 posture
2 posture
3 posture
5 lots of elbows and knees with firebreathing
6 firebreathing, but only until menstruation starts, then stop firebreathing until you have finished your bleed.
7 patience. Your period will come. This saved me from insanity when I was so uncomfortable, the knowledge that constipation and black clouds over my head in the fourth week would lead to loose bowel motions at the start of my period. They used to call PMS premenstrual tension. I think this is why. The onset of a period often signals that your whole body can relax.
8 Your uterus is a muscular 'pear' that is only held in place by loose tethering to surrounding structures including the bladder. It cannot get stuck on top of your rectum, unless:-
a it is severely retroverted and gets trapped/incarcerated underneath your sacrum, which it might be! (Mine was upside down and my cervix was almost unreachable and pointing straight up, out of the back wall.)
b it is at the bottom of your pelvic cavity, on top of your anus
c or both.

If it is at the bottom the only way to get the weight of it off your rectum is to increase your lumbar curve, which will tilt your pelvis forward. Your bladder will fall forwards and pull your uterus forwards again, and off the top of your rectum.

Do this by lifting your chest way up in the air while sitting or standing. Tuck your chin slightly. Hang passively by your arms from a vertical bar and feel your spine stretching, and your pelvis tilting forwards. (Stop if you get light headed). See if you can get sufficient chest elevation to rest a banana sideways, just below your collar bones, while you are standing. This is what will give your spine the extension that it needs to maintain your lumbar curve. If your natural posture will not allow this degree of movement, then keep working on it a few times every day. We will call this Louise's banana extension exercise (BEE).

Don't try and tilt your pelvis forward by tightening your lower back muscles. It will give you back pain. Just allow it to tilt by stretching yourself up tall.

This, or other Whole Woman exercises will help you get into Whole Woman posture and allow your body to stay there. Whole Woman posture keeps your pubic bones at the bottom of your torso. Your anus points out the back. Your curved sacrum is above your rectum and prevents your intestines from pressing down on your rectum. You just have to let your body do what it was designed to do.

Strong leg muscles and buttock muscles will help you to rise more easily after bending over from the hips.

I suggest that you buy Saving the Whole Woman and do the ballet workout in the back of it, and buy First Aid for Prolapse and start doing that workout.

You don't have to do the full workouts. That will just put you off. Just do one of each exercise that you can do comfortably for a start, then do one more of each every week, and start doing the more difficult exercises next year. You have the rest of your life to do this.

I think you have probably milked about as much as you can out of the medical system. Many women have done the same and come to the conclusion that the only way they will help is by reaarranging your pelvic contents surgically, which may or may not work, and has the potential to cause many more problems.

That is why everyone is here, finding our own solutions from the experiences of others. The fact that doctors are not much help at all is the reason why these Forums exist at all!

Louise :-)

ps having said all that, if one of the doctors wants to do another scan to eliminate any intestinal blockages, (and you certainly do seem a bit worried about that prospect) I would go along with that. Treat it as an opportunity to find out more about your body. If you have the scan results and there is no blockage, then you know that you don't have to worry, and that you can go ahead with our suggestions, knowing that you are not ignoring something life threatening, that doctors had previously failed to spot.

I am in a situation comparable to yours. I have rectal pressure, sensation of there being something there, feeling that bowel movements are obstructed, feeling of incomplete evacuation, feeling that gas gets trapped in the sigmoid colon and so on. I feel better when I lay down, I feel worse the week leading up to my period and the week of. I have seen 7 doctors (2 ER doctors, 2 Internal Medicine, a gynecologist, and a GI) and I am no closer now to getting help than I was when I first went in. Everyone keeps passing me off except the GI, but she just wants to treat me for constipation. My GYN, said I have a retroverted uterus, but they don't usually cause symptoms, so he doesn't feel that a hysterectomy and rectocele repair would help my symptoms (I don't want surgery, but I'm desperate to feel normal again)... though I told him repeatedly that my slight rectocele isn't high enough in my body to be causing my problems, he just told me he feels its a GI problem and sent me on my way. To make matters worse, the constant diagnosis of constipation convinced me do some straining (figured if I could FEEL the sensation, maybe I could push it out, wrong) which made things worse, and I feel that there is now numbness in my rectum.. I really regret that now. I have had a colonoscopy, ultrasounds, xrays, CT scan and a defecogram... but all these tests just keep focusing on motility and function of the colon and they keep giving me a diagnosis of constipation and pushing laxatives and fiber... when stool consistency isn't what's causing my problems and has not since day one. No one seems to even pay attention to the other organs around this area, and every time I have asked if its possible, they shrug it off as if its not even a reasonable question.

Soooo, if by chance you still log on to this site... did you ever get help?

Hi mommy 6,
I haven't seen hopeful on this forum for quite some time. Not everyone sticks around here, or only come sporadically.
Have you had a chance to read this entire thread? There is some great advice from some of our most knowledgable ladies on this forum.
I also had a lot of constipation and my retroverted uterus was resting enough on my rectum to make deficating an issue for me. Doing the whole woman work and getting my diet under control helped me tremendously!
If you haven't had a chance all ready, take a read around this site. Whole woman posture helps our bodies in so many ways.

I have been browsing through this site for a couple years when prolapse was first an issue, and since things have gotten bad finally made an account. I'm having a hard time locating people with my symptoms, and I'm not really 100% sure what is causing them so touching ground with someone in this boat is something I'm striving for. I've been trying to follow the WW posture, but it's not as easy as it looks. My doctor said my pelvic floor was in good shape and prolapsing wasn't bad... but obviously something slipped to cause my discomfort, I just don't know what. I woke up this way one morning 3 months ago, and I can not get relief, sometimes the pressure on my rectum is so intense I can't stand. I'm already on a mostly whole foods diet as I have Celiac Disease as well, GI keeps pushing extra fiber which sometimes just creates more problems. I have better days and worse days. Just really frustrated. None of the tests I have had really have revealed anything they can diagnose. My patience is running thin. I don't think I'd even recognize normal anymore at this point.

You know the celiac's could have something to do with this, or it could be the uterus resting on the rectum, or it could be the bowel prolapsing into the vaginal space which is more rare with a woman with her uterus, but not impossible. It may be something beyond this forum, but if you are only dabbling in whole woman posture, then you will never know if it will help relieve your symptoms. It sounds as if you have looked into all that the medical field can offer.
There have been women that have come here with similar symptoms. I myself had so much trouble with straining, bloating, and gas. It wasn't fun. Working on the posture, doing the exercises, whole woman walking, jiggling and firebreathing, lifting off the seat when going to the bathroom, getting down on knees and forearms and rocking back and forth.
What I am saying is that it sometimes takes a bit more effort to get things moving in the right direction. It was slow moving for me, but I don't have that frustration with having a bowel movement anymore, after many years of constipation.
Your situation may be different than mine, but I want you to know that it is possible even after years to feel better.

Right! I feel like I'm trying to put a puzzle together with missing pieces. I've been looking at the books and DVD's but can't afford the whole bundle and I'm not sure which would be best to start with. Especially since I don't know what the actual cause of my troubles are. My doctors haven't addressed ANYTHING about Celiac, not even discussion of symptoms that may go with it, though the GI felt we caught it early because damage was only slight... but I am almost convinced my uterus fell on my rectum. Laying down on my side or belly makes the feeling go away, and I never feel it when I wake up in the morning until after I start moving around... but when I mention prolapsed organs to anyone they look at me like I'm speaking a foreign language, like it can't be related.

I've had a retroverted uterus from early on, probably my early twenties, and my cervix was way up high back then, even after having my children. And, I always had constipation, gas, and bloating. It wasn't until I started studying whole woman that I started to see how my retroverted uterus was indeed part the the problem resting on my rectum. I also believe my bowels were squishing their way down. It was such a relief when I could finally have a daily easy bowel movement. The work gave me the strength to hover over the toilet. It has also given me a much lighter feeling inside-where things don't feel all squished down like they used to. I am not saying we have the exact same thing, but whole woman work does do more than stabilize pelvic organs. That was a very nice added surprise for me.
The best start really is Saving the Whole Woman book and the First Aid for Prolaspe DVD. These materials will give all the background and practical information that is needed to really understand whole woman.
I surly hope you can find a solution that works for you, it is no fun suffering with uncooperative bowels.

Mommy_6, Just to say that I agree with you in that a prolapsed organ can affect these things in ways which the doctors just don't seem to credit. I have a prolapsed uterus, and although I also have a small rectocele, it is not the rectocele which gives me the most bowel issues. Often I feel like there is something right at my anus and I have over time figured out that often it is my cervix poking into the back wall of my vagina, quite low down that makes me feel this. Also sometimes at night when I feel like there is poo stuck in my rectocele but I don't feel the urge to actually go ... I think I only feel the poo there because my cervix is poking at it. I think this because, in the times when my uterus is higher up and better behaved, I don't get this feeling even though I have examined myself and can feel that the poo is there in exactly the same way.

So yes, I believe that having the heavy uterus fall back and impinge into the area that the bowel resides in can cause all sorts of uncomfortable bowel feelings. Aging Gracefully is so right that it is so important to get those organs forward, to lessen the pressure on each other.

We've had several members who have described symptoms and feelings similar to what you have. If you have not yet really thrown yourself into this posture work, now is the time. There really is no medical help for these conditions. You have to coax those organs into the lower belly and get all that pressure off. It's done with posture, belly-breathing and good ol' gravity. It takes time and patience. - Surviving

I saw my GI again, and she says pelvic floor dysfunction is probably what's going on. I have one more test to confirm it and discuss treatment though. She also thinks my cystocele and slight rectorcele might be my problem.... I don't agree as I have had those for awhile without symptoms. Its too high for the rectocele and I don't have bladder troubles. When I try to describe this problem, she thinks I mean the lower rectum.. when I say its not that low, she thinks sigmoid colon, which I tell her its not that high. Since she can't give me anything that could alter my manometry test, there wasn't much to offer me for relief aside from a low dose antidepressant to aid in relaxing the area. I don't get how some of the pelvic floor can give out letting organs slip and others can be so tight they restrict BMs.

I think the First Aid for Prolapse is a wise purchase for me having multiple prolapses and I will purchase that for myself. Just wish they could pinpoint and diagnose the main cause of my discomfort.

Anyone have PFD that interferes with the passing of bowel movements? Are there any books in the Whole Woman shop that discuss it?

Yes, prolapse can interfere sometimes with bowel movements. Stool can get trapped in the bulge which is why some women need to splint at times. Doing the Whole Woman work helps realign the organs. I don't think any of these tests and procedures are going to help you. Anti-depressants to relax the pelvic area is one of the more puzzling of all the crazy ideas I've heard so far. - Surviving

Also, if you read above what hockey mom and I have written, you will find that we both agree that the retroverted uterus can and does, from our experiences, cause trouble with bowel movements. I used to notice this even more specifically right before my periods. As my uterus swelled it put even more pressure on the rectum, making it harder to have a bowel movement.
Doing the whole woman work helped lift my uterus out of that leaning back position that it seemed to be stuck in all these years, and straightened everything else out so that I have for the first time in my life been able to have regular daily smooth bowel movements.
I think it is time to start putting yourself into this work, and then you will feel for yourself what we are talking about.

Oh my goodness, I was told by my Gynecologist that he would give me a prescription for amitypiline
( sorry about spelling )
he said it would relax the muscles in my pelvic area, he said my tenseness was causing the problem with my rectocele and that surgery was the only answer, well he was wrong, WW posture and exercises , toilet posture ( most important ) and diet were the answers. I went from living in misery and a feeling of out of control to feeling I AM in control, we must lose the mindset of the doctor will fix things, we need to be involved with our own bodies, to listen and and try different methods to help ourselves. I am not saying doctors are wrong in all things, but we must keep an open mind, sadly my doctor had a closed mind and told me I was wasting my time, he had never heard of such foolishness, when I told him what worked for me.He talked to me like I was a child, I felt insulted, so when I left the office he tried to save face by saying he was pleased for me and my miraculous improvement adding that the prescription for amtrypiline must have had something to do with it. I turned as I walked out the door and told him
" It may have helped ,,,, if I hadn't torn in in pieces and thrown it in the recycling bin, I have a new Gynecologist, we need to help ourselves,

I have been reading through this whole thread. Lots of information. I suffered from consitpation since I got pregnant with my first child. I know I have prolapse at that time as had wind in my vagina on two occasions. Otherwise no symptoms until after child number two. Perhaps it was part of my constipation cause though. I have my constipation under more control now and it became a big problem! Fermented food is a must for me as is a high fat and lower fiber diet. I know that may be different to other advice but I have done hours of research and trial and error so find this works for me. I am grain free too which solves the bloating and gas issues. If I eat the wrong food I get problems again so for me diet is vital.

On another topic I thought that my prolapse got worse when my uterus fell down one night then led to worse rectocle and cystocele (after using sea sponges as a pessary for a few weeks). I have been wondering lately if what happened was my perineal slipped down. I had stitches, and a tear and 1 x vacuum extraction in my two labours. I remember this being higher and when things fell down a lot more one day (10 months ago) I remember feeling like my perineal was low and trying to push it back up. I got used to it being low but have been feeling worried lately like it makes sense that, that is what happened and that led to the rest coming down lower. I will have a consult with Christine but anyone else have this?

Hi Ladies

Well, I should have searched the post library first. In response to my question above. I found a very recent link with great words from Christine (pasted below at the end). I also found the walking part in Christine's response very helpful as I am very much a heal strike girl and have been working to change that but not going toes first. That explains why you look like you are so light on your feet and have a lovely dancing walk Christine in your DVD's. Here is the link re the perennial and the walking posture with relation to feet and arm placement.

I have not had experience with your problem but I think you have touched the heart of the matter when you discussed diet, what works for one may not work for another. I think diet is individual. One thing that helps all, is exercise and posture, those are a given, these two will help what ever has fallen most likely, to help your organs back to proper position, I am not the one to give advice on your problem but I do know exercise and posture is the go to for first aide help.Sometimes we never really have the answers for what was actually wrong, as long as we find the answers that help and give relief , healing is all thats important.I wish you well and I hope someone who has had your problem comes to your aide.

I have been reading more about retroverted uterus today, with that and your comments I am pretty much 100% convinced its just my uterus crushing my rectum. TMI, I checked and sure enough, where my uterus hits, it was blocked up solid enough I couldn't get a lubed finger through.. which would explain why nothing can get out etiher. I have mentioned it to both GI and GYN, and they won't entertain it, so you are right, I need to help myself. I need to tip my uterus off my back side. I tell my GI, my gas gets trapped and she tells me to take more Gas X, but that doesn't do any good when its being held hostage by a blockage. The Amitriptyline, I took it last night and not only could I not wake up this morning, I now have a migraine.

So, my First Aid for Prolapse is ordered.... this will help me re-position my uterus? Anything else I need?

Yes - to take a break from doctors for awhile, and work on this. It's all you need. And ditch the drugs, please. There is a ton of stuff on the site to get you going before your dvd arrives. Come back with specific questions. Best of luck to you! - Surviving

And please give this some time too, mommy6, because this isn't a quick fix. I didn't just do a few exercises from the dvds and get all better. I worked diligently on posture, did and do the dvds just about daily, whole woman walking, jiggling and firebreathing, practicing half squaring or leaning off the toilet seat, changing my diet. And, it did start working, but it took many months to start getting that relief though. I had that retroverted uterus most of my life, and most of the time it didn't want to move from the position it was in. But, it did finally and it was such a relief when it did.
Take your time with this work and give it the dedication it deserves, you won't be sorry about that.

Mommy_6: I can't even remember what I was searching that brought me to this thread but first let me say I'm sorry you've been around the block a zillion times with the dr's and you are still having these issues.
I was going to suggest maybe trying a very good osteopath to help you. I'm not sure how they are in the Canada they are not doctors....they are trained in gentle, manual techniques to help the body. My Osteo was the first person to tell me I had a retroverted uterus. I was pregnant at the time. I then asked my OB about it (as I didn't really believe her at the time :)) and he was like "ya you do but so what". I've been with this osteo ever since and just love her. I am constantly amazed at how much they differ from physicians and how much they know about the body. I sent my Osteo to this site and gave her a few links to articles and she agrees with the information. She is going to help me with realigning my body as I try to live my life in WW posture. She's always been WW posture without even knowing that's what Christine calls it :)

Newmamaj's advice is well-meaning, but she may be one of the fortunate few who has found a practitioner who is open-minded. If you are looking for alternatives, well, what do you think Whole Woman is? Our suggestion is not that you look for a different kind of doctor, but rather, that you familiarize yourself with the WW work before you go back to any doctors at all. As Christine has pointed out many times.......women who cannot separate themselves from their doctors long enough to give serious consideration to the Whole Woman work, are simply not giving themselves a chance to reap the benefits. - Surviving

That's right. Whole woman posture work is the best "alternative therapy" out there for prolapse in my mind, because with each movement you take with this work, you are pulling those pelvic organs forward into the lower belly, flattening the vagina and retum into their more natural anatomically correct positioning, and correcting our proper hip placement to where it always should have been, correcting that natural lumbar curvature our bodies were always meant to have.
I felt how different this all was when I started doing my first pelvic rocks, when I started trying to stand, walk, and move in whole woman posture, when I did my first DVD.
It was all so odd to me, and new, and wonderful. I just let Christines words resonate in my mind as I went through these motions, telling myself that this was the posture that I should have been maintaining all along.
It really is a mindset, ladies. One where we must learn to trust in ourselves, that we are the ones that have the control over our bodies, that we are the ones that make the difference.
And, those of us who have really put themselves into this work, know that through our actions, motions and movements with this work that we have finally come back to ourselves and into the bodies we were always meant to have.

I do understand that this can be an especially hard sell to post-partum moms. They are used to their practitioners, and they are not used to being told that doctors don't have all the best answers to everything. Easier I guess for women like me who, when prolapse hits, haven't seen the inside of a doctor's office in eons, and have no interest in going there. But you new moms have a great advantage in starting this work now, and it's hard to sit by and see this message just not getting through sometimes. It takes a leap of faith. -- Surviving

I have embraced the WWP and exercise and in my third year I have realized benefits that I would have never dreamed or hoped for.
I also had the steadfast belief that surgery was not for me - I just knew somehow...
I waited 17+ yrs during which I had my 2nd and 3rd children to find this alternative.
I hope for the same for others here,
You just have to do the work for yourselves,
Then you can have your own amazing hindsight of this wonderful healing and empowering journey.
All the best,
Aussie Soul Sister

beautifully said ( written ),,, it is awe inspiring to read the testimonies of success stories, I`so glad I am among the numbers, thanks to Chistine and her knowledge and hard work, thanks to all of you members,